In 2017 I warned that with the urging of then Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos, former Governor Bruce Rauner, former Mayor Rahm Emanuel and current Chicago Cardinal Blasé Cupich, the legislature was planning to adopt a tax credit school voucher plan.
The issue is not about Catholicism. It is about resource support for the public schools being diverted to private religious schools. Government money should not support religious schools.
Of course it's about Catholicism. As well as other groups mainstream and secular protestants dislike. If this were not true you would not be trying to palm off dodgey arithmetic to support your case.
Under the scholarship program, 10,000 kids were able to go to non public schools. It's a tiny fraction of those who wanted to go.
Nenetheless, if those ten thousand hadn't gotten their scholarships, they would have been forced to transfer into the public schools, mostly CPS. The Chicago Board of education would have been forced to pony up an additional $28,700 for each one of those kids.
The issue of public education in the US is primarily an issue of curriculum and instruction. Many parents are in dissent over this question.
I can remember having lunch with Fred three or four years ago, and asking him about these issues. Fred, a working teacher, said he wasn't sure exactly what was being taught or how instruction was accomplished
Fred wasn't alone. I have talked to a number of public school teachers over the years, but I haven't found any supporter of the public schools who was prepared to offer any thoughts on this issue. Parents who removed their children did so because they wanted alternatives.
Those who removed their children from public schools did so because they were concerned about issues of instruction and curriculum. It's astonishing that their opponents are unwilling - or unable - to discuss any issues with them, especially the issues which drove them away.
Instead it's an endless series of accusations. It's not the government's money, after all. It's our money. We should get some voice in what is being taught.
Sorry Walter. I don’t recall the conversation or the context. But I’m sure I said that not one dime of tax dollars should go to private or parochial schools.
Nonsense. Teachers in my school taught reading using a combination of phonics and whole language, as any good teacher would. And that has absolutely nothing to do with public tax dollars going to support religious indoctrination. And I am more than able to talk about reading instruction all day even though I’m not a Protestant or a Catholic.
You seem to misunderstand, Walter. I object to diverting public tax dollars to support ANY religious school. No "dodgey arithmetic" was advanced. PUBLIC tax dollars should go to the PUBLIC schools for the education of all kids. For clarity: I object to diverting public tax dollars to support ANY and ALL religious schools. Do that with private money.
In a democracy there is no privileged viewpoint. When parents withdraw their children because of differences over instruction and curriculum, their views are just as worthy as are the views of those who support the public schools. It's a question of whose views are being taught.
Calling your opponent's view "religious" and then ruling them out of bounds is not putting us on a path to dialogue.
Everyone's views must be on an equal footing.
That's why the discussion must be centered on issues of curruculum and instruction. All school systems sequence out two semesters per instructional year. The issue is whose views are being taught.
You are just wrong Walter. Parents can advocate for any kind of instruction they want. But the Constitution places a wall between religion and the state, including public secular schools and religious ones. Vouchers for parochial schools are a back door violation of that Constitutional separation. It’s not about how much money. It’s not about curriculum or instruction. Or parental rights. Or gender neutral bathrooms. Or drag queens. Or any other diversions some want to throw out. Democracy demands a free system of secular public education. If some parent wants a religious education for their child, I should not have to pay for it. That’s what our Constitution says.
Yes, kill it! What a wonderful way to let the Catholics know where they stand!
The issue is not about Catholicism. It is about resource support for the public schools being diverted to private religious schools. Government money should not support religious schools.
Of course it's about Catholicism. As well as other groups mainstream and secular protestants dislike. If this were not true you would not be trying to palm off dodgey arithmetic to support your case.
Under the scholarship program, 10,000 kids were able to go to non public schools. It's a tiny fraction of those who wanted to go.
Nenetheless, if those ten thousand hadn't gotten their scholarships, they would have been forced to transfer into the public schools, mostly CPS. The Chicago Board of education would have been forced to pony up an additional $28,700 for each one of those kids.
The issue of public education in the US is primarily an issue of curriculum and instruction. Many parents are in dissent over this question.
I can remember having lunch with Fred three or four years ago, and asking him about these issues. Fred, a working teacher, said he wasn't sure exactly what was being taught or how instruction was accomplished
Fred wasn't alone. I have talked to a number of public school teachers over the years, but I haven't found any supporter of the public schools who was prepared to offer any thoughts on this issue. Parents who removed their children did so because they wanted alternatives.
Those who removed their children from public schools did so because they were concerned about issues of instruction and curriculum. It's astonishing that their opponents are unwilling - or unable - to discuss any issues with them, especially the issues which drove them away.
Instead it's an endless series of accusations. It's not the government's money, after all. It's our money. We should get some voice in what is being taught.
Sorry Walter. I don’t recall the conversation or the context. But I’m sure I said that not one dime of tax dollars should go to private or parochial schools.
I didn't ask you about funding. I asked whether your school system was using phonics, an issue related to instruction.
Nonsense. Teachers in my school taught reading using a combination of phonics and whole language, as any good teacher would. And that has absolutely nothing to do with public tax dollars going to support religious indoctrination. And I am more than able to talk about reading instruction all day even though I’m not a Protestant or a Catholic.
I don't think that's what the research tells us is effective. But I am glad to hear that you checked.
You seem to misunderstand, Walter. I object to diverting public tax dollars to support ANY religious school. No "dodgey arithmetic" was advanced. PUBLIC tax dollars should go to the PUBLIC schools for the education of all kids. For clarity: I object to diverting public tax dollars to support ANY and ALL religious schools. Do that with private money.
In a democracy there is no privileged viewpoint. When parents withdraw their children because of differences over instruction and curriculum, their views are just as worthy as are the views of those who support the public schools. It's a question of whose views are being taught.
Calling your opponent's view "religious" and then ruling them out of bounds is not putting us on a path to dialogue.
Everyone's views must be on an equal footing.
That's why the discussion must be centered on issues of curruculum and instruction. All school systems sequence out two semesters per instructional year. The issue is whose views are being taught.
You are just wrong Walter. Parents can advocate for any kind of instruction they want. But the Constitution places a wall between religion and the state, including public secular schools and religious ones. Vouchers for parochial schools are a back door violation of that Constitutional separation. It’s not about how much money. It’s not about curriculum or instruction. Or parental rights. Or gender neutral bathrooms. Or drag queens. Or any other diversions some want to throw out. Democracy demands a free system of secular public education. If some parent wants a religious education for their child, I should not have to pay for it. That’s what our Constitution says.
There is ample precedent to the effect that the Constitution does not say what you seem to think it says.